April 30, 2002 (Transcript)

CORRESPONDENCE FROM STEVE THOMPSON, DAVID ROSEMAN, JOHN
REYNOLDS, BEHM & BEHM P.C., AND CLIFF PRINCE WERE READ INTO THE RECORD BY HELEN.

STEVE BRUCE- " BOARD MEMBERS HAVE CURRENT PLANS IN FRONT OF THEM."
HELEN LEFLER-" I TALKED WITH RANDY HEPWORTH AND HE SAID THE 40 FOOT ACCESS HAD BEEN CHANGED TO 33 FEET"
STEVE BRUCE-" NO, THAT IS NOT CORRECT. THE 40 FOOT THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT NOW, IS AN ACCESS THAT GOES DOWN TO LAKE MICHIGAN. IT IS CURRENTLY A PART OF THE LAKE MICHIGAN PARCEL AND THAT PART OF THE PUD PLAN WE ASKED FOR TWO PROSPECTIVE DIVISIONS ON THE LAKE MICHIGAN PORTION THAT WOULD IN FACT GO TO THE WATERS EDGE, BUT GIVE EASEMENT BACK TO THE CAMPGROUNDS FOR THE BEACH USE, AS IT ALWAYS HAS HAD, WE WOULD NOT CHANGE THE AMOUNT OF BEACH THAT IS DOWN THERE FOR THE CAMPGROUND USE, THAT WOULD ALWAYS BE THE SAME. THE 40 FEET EXCLUSIVE FOR THE TRAVEL OF THE CAMPGROUND DOWN TO THAT BEACH. THE 33 FEET ACCESS THAT YOU WERE DESCRIBING, IS THE ACCESS FROM THE 40 FOOT TO THE SECOND LOT, SO THAT THEY WOULD HAVE AN ADEQUATE DRIVEWAY TO REACH THE SECOND LOT. DOES THE BOARD UNDERSTAND THAT THERE IS A 40 FOOT WALKWAY AND THE 33 FEET IS AN ACCESS DRIVEWAY TO THE PROPOSED SITE? WHICH, BY THE WAY, WHEN I SOLD THIS PROPERTY TO THE WHEELERS IN 1998, CAMP TRAILERS ACTUALLY WERE SITTING PREVIOUSLY ALREADY BUILDING SITES AT THAT TIME, FORTUNATELY THEY'VE BEEN REMOVED OFF THE WATERS EDGE. IN ANY EVENT, THE MOST VEHEMENT OBJECTION, I WOULD SAY, TO THIS PLAN HAS BEEN THE CAMP STORE. WE ABSOLUTELY ARE HAND STRUNG AT THIS POINT WITH A VERY SMALL OFFICE STORE. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THERE, IT'S ALWAYS BEEN A OFFICE AND A STORE, BUT IT'S ABOUT 300 FEET, VERY SMALL. WE'VE PROPOSED TO BUILD A LEGITIMATE BUILDING THAT WOULD MAKE AN ADEQUATE OFFICE AND STORE FACILITY. THE STORE BEING A CAMP STORE JUST LIKE MOST ANY CAMPGROUND WOULD OPERATE. YES, IF YOU PULLED OFF THE STREET, WE WOULD SELL YOU A SWEATSHIRT OR SELL YOU A PACK OF HOT DOGS, BUT THAT ISN'T OUR MAIN FOCUS OF THAT BUSINESS. THE MAIN FOCUS OF THE BUSINESS IS TO ADEQUATELY HANDLE THE TRAFFIC AS IT COMES IN OFF RIDGE ROAD, REGISTER THE PEOPLE AND BE A PLACE TO CONDUCT BUSINESS IN A BUSINESS LIKE FASHION. AFTER CONVERSATIONS WITH SOME OF PEOPLE IN THE AREA, WE HAVE A PLAN THAT WAS DRIVEN BY OUR NEEDS, WHAT WE PERCEIVED AS OUR NEEDS, FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE. WE HAVE QUITE A BIT OF TREES FROM THE NORTH SIDE OF OUR ENTRY WAY REMOVED AND A PAVED PARKING LOT INSTALLED. AFTER LISTENING TO THE CONCERNS OF OUR NEIGHBORS, WE'VE TREMENDOUSLY SCALED THAT BACK AND TUCKED IT BACK IN BEHIND A NATURALLY OCCURRING BERM THAT WOULD BERM THIS THING FROM THE WEST AND THE SOUTH, LEAVING THE VERY MAIN BULK OF VEGETATION TO THE NORTH, JUST REMOVING ENOUGH TO MAKE A GOOD DRIVEWAY. I THINK EVERYONE HAS THAT IN FRONT OF THEM. I'VE SHOWN THAT TO PEOPLE IN THE CROWD TO SOME EXTENT. SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A VERY ADEQUATE TRAFFIC FLOW PATTERN IN AND OUT OF THE CAMPGROUND, ALLOWING FOR REGISTRATION AND A SEPARATE TRAFFIC FLOW AREA IN FRONT OF THE REGISTRATION OFFICE, ALLOWING FOR SEVERAL RIGS TO PARK THERE, NOT BEING BACKED UP ONTO THE STORE. THE CURRENT SITUATION, WHEN SOMEBODY STOPS AT THE OFFICE, IT'S
A CURRENT DRIVEWAY AND IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU'RE SIMPLY DRIVING IN, ALREADY REGISTERED IN THE CAMPGROUND,. YOU'RE STOPPED THERE AND THERE COULD BE SEVERAL UNITS, EVEN PUSHED OUT AS FAR AS THE ROAD, AS I UNDERSTAND, ESPECIALLY ON A HOLIDAY WEEK-END. WE'RE TRYING TO ALLEVIATE THAT PROBLEM FROM
A TRAFFIC FLOW PERSPECTIVE. I'M ALSO TRYING TO CREATE A SITUATION THAT WON'T BE AS OBJECTIONABLE TO THE LOCAL NEIGHBORS, THAT ARE WELL REPRESENTED HERE, I THINK TONIGHT. BUT, AT THE SAME TIME, I ENCOURAGE THEM AND INVITE THEM TO COME ON OVER ON THE FOURTH OF JULY , WHEN IT'S ONE HOUR DRIVE TO SILVER LAKE AND THEY WANT TO PICK UP A LOAF OF BREAD AND A GALLON OF MILK. I'D ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO THAT. I DON'T THINK THIS IS A DIFFERENT USE THAN ANY OTHER CAMP STORE OUT THERE. I JUST DON'T SEE THAT AS A OBJECTION FROM A ZONING PERSPECTIVE AT ALL. I'M TRYING VERY HARD TO WORK WITH THE EMOTIONAL CONCERNS OF THE PEOPLE HERE, BECAUSE I DO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY DO HAVE A LOT OF MONEY INVESTED IN THEIR PROPERTIES AND THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THEY NEED TO BE AT LEAST PAYING ATTENTION TO."
HELEN-" WOULD YOU LIKE TO SUPPORT YOUR REQUEST FOR REZONING OF THE ENTIRE PROPERTY BEFORE WE RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENTS?"
STEVE-"THE PROPERTY IS 401 ACRES, MORE OR LESS. THE PROPERTY IS ZONED R/R AT THIS TIME, WHICH CALLS FOR A 1200 SQUARE FOOT MINIMUM LOT SIZE. IN THE WRITTEN COMMENT I'VE HEARD NUMEROUS CONCERNS AS TO WELL, HEALTH ISSUES. THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT WILL COME IN THE SUBDIVISION PROCESS. WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR ANY ANSWERS FROM THE PC ON THAT. I DON'T EXPECT THE PC IS THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT. I DON'T EXPECT THAT THE PC IS THE ROAD COMMISSION. I DO EXPECT THAT WE WILL BE HELD TO THOSE STANDARDS AND WHAT WE PROPOSE, AND I'VE SHOWN THE SIZE OF THE LOTS UP AT THE ADJACENT SUBDIVISION TO THE NORTH. WE'VE PROPOSED LOTS THAT AVERAGE JUST UNDER 1400 SQUARE FEET. THE TOWNSHIP MANDATES 1200 SQUARE FEET AND AGAIN, THE AVERAGE LOT ALMOST ONE ACRE. WHICH COMPARATIVELY SPEAKING IS ABOUT THREE AND A HALF TIMES WHAT THE TOWNSHIP MINIMUM REQUIRES. WE'RE TRYING TO BE VERY SOCIALLY CONSCIOUS AS WE MAKE THIS DEVELOPMENT. WE'VE SPENT THE MONEY ON AN AERIAL BEING DONE SO AS OUR ELEVATIONS INDICATE WHERE WE SHOULD AND SHOULDN'T BE BUILDING. SO FROM A LAYMANS PERSPECTIVE AND FROM A PROFESSIONAL PERSPECTIVE WE'VE LAID THIS THING OUT, WHERE WE ARE NOT REALLY USING THE AREAS THAT MAY BE MARGINAL FROM A SEPTIC TANK PERSPECTIVE. I'D ENCOURAGE ANYONE WHO WOULD LIKE TO, I'LL TAKE YOU BACK THERE AND SHOW YOU THE PROPERTY. THIS IS ROLLING SAND HILLS BACK THERE. WHERE WE ARE DEVELOPING, THIS IS NOT WETLANDS, THAT WE'RE DEVELOPING. I'VE ALREADY TAKEN SOME OF THE PC PEOPLE IN THERE, AND I'D BE GLAD TO TAKE SOME OF THE NEIGHBORS IN THERE OR ANYONE ELSE WHO HAS A CONCERN ABOUT THAT. WE'RE LAYMEN AND I'M NOT TRYING TO MAKE ANY DECISIONS FOR THE HEALTH DEPARTMENT OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. WE'VE ALSO PROPOSED A GREEN BELT AREA OF 100 FEET DEEP FROM THE BACK OF THE LOT LINES TO THE EXISTING BOUNDARY LINES OF THE NEIGHBORS. I UNDERSTAND THAT THERE HAS BEEN SOME QUESTION OR CONCERN AS TO THE MOVING OF CORNERS OR WHATEVER. I BELIEVE RANDY WILL HAVE US A WELL DELINEATED WITH ALL OF OUR CORNERS CORRECTLY LOCATED AND WILL ALSO BENEFIT THE NEIGHBORS BY PUTTING 100 FOOT BUFFER STRIP IN THERE THAT WILL JUST BE COMMON PROPERTY FOR THE AREA AND WILL NOT BE DEVELOPED FOR THE AREA. SO WE WILL NOT HAVE FENCE LINE TO FENCE LINE. THERE'LL BE 100 FEET IN THERE BETWEEN THEM. THE REST OF THE PROPERTY THAT IS RETAIN-
ING, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS THE WATER ISSUE. I ANTICIPATE THAT AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO NEGOTIATE, SO THE LOGICAL PLACE FOR THAT IS THE SE CORNER OF THIS PROPERTY WILL RETAIN THAT AT THIS POINT, SO WE HAVE COMPLETE CONTROL OF THAT AT THIS POINT, SO WE CAN HAVE THAT MAINTAINED CORRECTLY. THE NORTH EDGE OF THE PROPERTY, THE TOWNSHIP NOW OWNS THOSE LOTS, SO WE SHOULDN'T HAVE ISSUES ON THAT END. AND THE STATE OWNS THE LAND ON THE EAST AND NORTH END OF THE PROPERTY, SO AGAIN, WE'VE DONE OUR VERY BEST TO BUFFER THIS FROM THE NEIGHBORS. FROM THAT PROSPECTIVE, I THINK THAT THESE LOTS WE'VE PLANNED WILL BE VERY APPROVABLE BY ALL THE ENTITIES INVOLVED WITH IT. WHEN WE GET BACK TO THE CAMPGROUND ITSELF, THE ISSUES THAT ARE BEING RAISED CONCERNING THE DEVELOPMENT OF ADDITIONAL SITE AND SO ON. I'M SIMPLY ASKING FOR THE NUMBER OF SITE THAT THE WHEELERS ALREADY HAVE STATE PERMITTED TO BUILD. THEY'VE GOT THE LOCAL ELECTRICAL AND PLUMBING PERMITS FOR IT AND THEY HAVE STATE PERMITS FOR 230 SITES., WHAT'S ALREADY BEEN LOOKED AT FROM THE STATES LEVEL AND APPROVAL."
HELEN-"WHAT DEPARTMENT ARE YOU REFERRING TO, THE DEQ?"
STEVE MARCINIAK-" HOW RECENT ARE THEY?"
STEVE BRUCE-" I DON'T KNOW, I CAN FIND OUT. I HAVE THAT PERMIT. WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO GO BEYOND THAT. IT'S ALREADY WORKED INTO AN EXISTING AREA OF THE EXISTING CAMPGROUND. WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO EXPAND THAT USE. ONE ISSUE THERE, WE HAVE THE EXIT ROAD SHOWING, IT ALREADY EXISTS. THERE'S ALREADY A ROAD THERE, ACTUALLY I BELIEVE IT'S A PLATTED ROAD. THERE ARE ABOUT 9 SITES UP IN WHAT WILL BE THE SW AREA OF THE UPPER PART OF THE CAMPGROUND AND THOSE MAY BE ELIMINATED AND SO WE DO SHOW A SHADOW 9 ADDITIONAL LOTS, SO THERE WOULD ACTUALLY BE 239 LOTS, BUT WE'D ONLY BUILD 230 LOTS, SO WE'RE ONLY ASKING FOR 230 USABLE SITES, NO MORE."
HELEN-" BRUCE, BEFORE WE GO ON, I HAVE A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS, IF I MAY. THE LEGEND ON YOUR DRAWINGS INDICATE THAT THE MINIMUM ROAD FRONTAGE WOULD BE 65 FEET AND OUR ZONING ORDINANCE CALLS FOR A MINIMUM LOT WIDTH OF 100 FEET.
STEVE-"DOES THAT MEAN THAT THE ROAD FRONTAGE HAS TO BE 100 FEET?"
HELEN-" YES, AND ANOTHER THING, THE GREEN BELT SEEMS TO BE INTERRUPTED BY A CUL-DE-SAC ON THE S END OF THE WESTERN PART OF THE PROPERTY."
STEVE- " THAT'S CORRECT, BUT THAT IS THE PART THAT BECOMES UNPLATTED. IF YOU SEE THE NECK, IT COMES IN UNPLATTED.
HELEN-" IS THIS GOING TO BE PAVED, IS IT GOING TO BE A TURN AROUND?"
STEVE-" THAT'LL BE A TURN AROUND.
HELEN-" SO THE GREEN BELT WILL BE INTERRUPTED BY THE TURN AROUND?"
STEVE-" I GUESS THAT'S PHYSICALLY CORRECT. IT COULD BE CHANGED, IF THAT'S THE RECOMMENDATION. AT THIS POINT OUR REQUEST IS FOR THE PLAT AS IT IS PUT FORTH.
HELEN-" HAVE YOU ANY OTHER COMMENTS BEFORE WE RECEIVE PUBLIC COMMENT?"
STEVE-" I'M PROBABLY FORGETTING A LOT OF THINGS, AS I'M REMINDED, I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT I CAN.
HELEN-" WE'LL GIVE YOU A SHOT AT IT AFTERWARDS. THANK YOU."
" I'LL RECEIVE COMMENTS FROM THE PUBLIC AND I WOULD APPRECIATE IT IF YOU WOULD STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS CLEARLY , SO THAT IT CAN BE RECORDED. I WILL RECEIVE FIRST COMMENTS THAT ARE IN FAVOR OF THE PROJECT. (none) SECOND I WILL RECEIVE QUESTIONS ABOUT THE PROJECT. (none) THIRD I WILL RECEIVE NEGATIVE COMMENTS."
DAVID BRAGEL-" MY WIFE CAMILLE, WE ARE RESIDENTS OF 4593 RIDGE ROAD. THERE WERE SEVERAL QUESTIONS THAT WERE ADDRESSED IN THE WRITTEN COMMENTS. ARE WE GOING TO GET ANSWERS ON THOSE QUESTIONS AND IF SO WHO IS GOING TO BE ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES?"
HELEN-" THE PC WILL BE ADDRESSING THOSE ISSUES BEFORE A DECISION IS MADE."
DUANE VERNON-"LIVE AT 4585 N RIDGE ROAD AND WIFE JUDY, I HAVE SOME QUESTIONS AND STATEMENTS TO MAKE. THE 40 FOOT ACCESS TO LAKE MICHIGAN. WHAT I WANT TO KNOW IS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOING TO BE IN THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT AND I UNDERSTAND THAT THE DEVELOPER HAS SAID,'THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO LAKE MICHIGAN.' IS THAT CORRECT?
STEVE-" MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN THE WISDOM OF THE TOWNSHIP BOARD WE CAN'T GIVE THEM ACCESS TO LAKE MICHIGAN. THAT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE THE ABILITY TO OWN LAKE MICHIGAN FRONTAGE OR LAKE FRONTAGE IN GOLDEN TOWNSHIP CAN USE THE LAKES AND EVERYONE ELSE HAS THE ABILITY TO USE THE PUBLIC ACCESS."
DUANE-" THE 40 FOOT LAKE ACCESS TO LAKE MICHIGAN, WHO'S GOING TO POLICE THAT AT EIGHT O'CLOCK AT NIGHT OR TEN O'CLOCK AT NIGHT? NOBODY'S GOING TO POLICE THAT."
STEVE-" NO THAT'S NOT TRUE. THAT'S PART OF OUR BUSINESS, SO FROM A BUSINESS PERSPECTIVE WE ARE GOING TO POLICE IT.
DUANE-" HOW? TELL ME HOW."
STEVE-" AT THIS POINT, WE DO SECURITY CHECKS AND WHAT NOT, BUT I'VE NEVER BEEN IN THE CAMPGROUND BUSINESS BEFORE, SO I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY HOW OFTEN I'M GOING TO BE DOING IT, BUT I WILL BE DOING IT AS BUSINESS REQUIRES IT. I'VE BEEN IN A LOT OF BUSINESSES AND YOU DO NEED TO RESPOND TO THINGS LIKE THAT IN A POSITIVE MANNER."
DUANE-" I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, BUT LETS NOT KID OURSELVES, NOBODY'S GOING TO POLICE THAT CONSTANTLY 24 HOURS A DAY. PEOPLE FROM THE CAMPGROUND WILL GO DOWN THERE AND USE IT AND NO BODY'S GOING TO STOP IT. I THINK YOU UNDERSTAND THAT. WE
TALKED ABOUT THAT."
STEVE-" FIRST OF ALL, LET'S CLARIFY TWO THINGS. ONE FORTY FEET IS NOT AN ISSUE. THERE'S 238 FEET AND SECOND OF ALL FROM A PRACTICAL
STAND POINT, MR. ASHLY IS SITTING RIGHT NEXT TO ME, HE MAY OR MAY NOT WANT TO AGREE WITH ME, BUT LAST SUMMER I TOOK MY BOAT BY MANY TIMES, ALL SUMMER LONG AND I DID ONE SUNDAY FIND TWENTY PEOPLE ON THE BEACH, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT WAS A FAMILY GATHERING OR WHAT, BUT THAT WAS OUT OF THE MANY TIMES I WENT BY THERE I HAVE A COTTAGE ON JUNIPER BEACH. I WENT RIGHT IN CLOSE TO THE SHORE, WATCHING CLOSELY, THERE WAS NEVER MORE THAN TWENTY PEOPLE. ALMOST EVERY TIME THERE WERE SIX OR SEVEN OR NONE."
DUANE-" LET'S BE REALISTIC, ONE OF THE REASONS THIS CAMPGROUND IS
BEING DEVELOPED IS TO GIVE PEOPLE ACCESS TO THE LAKE. LET'S NOT
KID OURSELVES, THAT'S WHY THEY WANT TO BE THERE. TO HAVE ACCESS TO LAKE MICHIGAN." ( THE TAPE HAS RUN OUT) BUT FURTHER CONCERNS ARE ORV'S PERMITTED? FEELS THE EXTRA RESIDENTS WILL ADD TO MUCH TO THE ALREADY CONGESTED ROADS TO SILVER LAKE. WILL LOTS BE RENTED? IS THERE A NOISE ORDINANCE ? HE IS CONCERNED WITH THE AESTHETICS.
STEVE- RESPONDED THAT IT IS AN RV RESORT. THE CAMPGROUND WILL POLICE IT AS REQUIRED. THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS ARE FOR SALE, NOT FOR RENT. THERE IS AN AREA DESIGNATED FOR A POOL NEAR THE RESIDENTIAL LOTS, WHICH SHOULD ALLEVIATE SOME OF THE BEACH USE.
WALT ASHLEY- COMMENTED THAT IT IS A SMALL BEACH AREA WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE USING IT AND THAT IS A CONCERN OF HIS.
BARB HEWLETT-IS IN FAVOR OF THE PUD, SHE HAS TRIED TO USE THE BEACH AREA, ONLY TO BE TURNED AWAY. SHE WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE SOUTHERLY ROAD WHICH BORDERS ON HER PROPERTY.
STEVE- EXPLAINED THAT THE ROAD WILL BE AN EXIT AND THAT HE PLANNED TO LEAVE 100 FOOT BUFFER.
DAVID ROSEMAN-" I LIVE AT 4629 RIDGE ROAD AND THIS IS MY WIFE JOAN. I'VE ASKED SEVERAL QUESTIONS IN MY LETTER AND I JUST HAVE A FEW OTHERS. STEVE WHEN YOU MENTIONED 100 FOOT BUFFER ALONG
THE PERIMETER, THAT'S NOT ALONG RIDGE ROAD, CORRECT?"
STEVE-" NO, BUT PART OF IT IN RESPONSE TO JOANS CONCERN, WE PUT THE BUILDING BACK 100 FEET FROM THE ROAD AND NOW WE ARE ACTUALLY CREATING A LARGER BUFFER THAN THAT IF WE LEAVE ALL THOSE TREES , THAT WE WERE PROPOSING TO TAKE OUT. THERE'S AT LEAST A COUPLE HUNDRED FEET."
DAVID-" AS YOU GO NORTH, THERE'S PERHAPS, TWENTY OR THIRTY FEET
BETWEEN THE ROAD."
STEVE-"RIGHT, UP AT THE VERY END. THAT IS EXISTING AND I DON'T PROPOSE MOVING ANY OF THE EXISTING CAMPSITES.
DAVID-" I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY THAT , THAT 100 FOOT BUFFER WON'T BE ALONG THE ROAD. THE MOST VISIBLE PART OF THE PROJECT.
STEVE-" RIGHT THAT ALREADY EXISTS AND THE ROAD IS A BUFFER THERE."
DAVID-" TO CLARIFY THE POINT THAT MR, VERNON WAS ASKING ABOUT.
ASKING ABOUT RENTING THE PROPERTY, WE HAVE HEARD THAT NOTHING BUT HOMES CAN BE PUT ON THESE LOTS."
STEVE-" THAT IS ABSOLUTELY OUR INTENTIONS. THAT'S WHAT THE ZONING WOULD REQUIRE, SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING. IT IS WHAT WE PROPOSE."
DAVID-" SO YOU ARE SAYING THAT IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE THAT YOU COULD BUILD A HOUSE AND RENT IT, BUT NOT TO RENT FOR EXAMPLE, THE LOT TO SOMEONE WHO MIGHT WANT TO PARK A TRAILER THERE?"
STEVE-"I DON'T THINK THAT THESE GUYS WILL LET THAT HAPPEN, NO."
DAVID-" YOU TALKED ABOUT THE BUSINESS CASE IN TERMS OF CONTROLLING ACCESS THROUGH THIS KEYHOLE. I'D ARGUE WITH THE BUSINESS PIECE IS TO SELL AS MANY LOTS AS POSSIBLE AND THAT PEOPLE WILL WANT TO HAVE ACCESS TO THE LAKE AND NOT WANT TO BE PREVENTED FROM HAVING ACCESS TO THE LAKE. SO I WOULD JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I THINK IT MIGHT BE A LITTLE DISINGENUOUS TO SAY THAT THERE IS A BUSINESS CASE TO BE MADE CONTROLLING THE ACCESS . THE LAST POINT THAT I HAVE WANTED TO MAKE IS ABOUT SIGNAGE. ARE THERE LAWS, RULES REGUARDING SIGNAGE? FOR EXAMPLE REGUARDING THE SIGNS THAT ARE USED TO ADVERTISE THE STORE. ARE THEY SOMEWHERE WHERE WE CAN OBSERVE THEM?"
HELEN-" JAKE WHELPLEY, OUR ZONING ADMINISTRATOR HAS THEM AND HE CAN BRIEFLY TELL YOU WHAT THEY ARE."
JAKE-" THERE ARE REGULATIONS IN THE ORDINANCE FOR SIGNS. IN A PUD AND SPECIAL USE PERMIT THE PC DESIGNATES THE LOCATION OF THE SIGNS AND WHAT KIND OF SIGNS WILL BE USED OVER AND ABOVE WHAT THE ZO ALLOWS. IT IS MORE RESTRICTIVE THAN THE ZO."
DAVID-" OR LESS RESTRICTIVE?"
JAKE-" OR LESS."
" SO IN ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION, THEY COULD PUT A SIGN OUT BY THE ROAD THAT SAYS TIMBERLAKE'S CONVENIENCE STORE WITH AN ARROW."
HELEN-" THEY CAN ASK FOR PERMISSION TO DO THAT. I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW WE WOULD VOTE."
DAVID-" I JUST WANTED TO CLEAR THE AIR. I JUST WANTED TO KNOW. I HAVE JUST ONE OTHER QUESTION THAT RELATES TO THE ZONING, I WAS MISINFORMED NOT BY JAKE, ABOUT THE PRESENT ZONING. THAT THIS IS PRESENTLY ZONED R/R ?
HELEN-" YES, IT IS."
DAVID-"THIS WAS CHANGED FROM A/R AT SOME POINT?"
JAKE-" NO, THAT PARCEL OF PROPERTY HAS ALWAYS BEEN R/R EVER SINCE THERE HAS BEEN ZONING. THERE WAS AN ERROR IN THE MAP THAT
WAS OUT, THAT SHOWED IT AS AGRICULTURAL. THE OTHER POINT BEING, EVEN IF IT WAS ZONED A/R THE ZO ALLOWS FOR A PUD , SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED DEVELOPMENT IN THE A/R ZONE. EITHER WAY IT IS ZONED, THE OPTION IS THERE AT THE REQUEST , BUT IT IS ZONED R/R."
DAVID-" WHILE YOU ARE HELPING ME, JAKE, GET SMARTER ABOUT THIS. THERE IS ALSO A CATEGORY ABOUT R/C?"'
JAKE-" YES, R/C AND IT IS LOCATED AT SILVER LAKE."
DAVID-" AND HOW DOES THAT VARY FROM R/R, ESPECIALLY WHERE THERE IS TO BE A RETAIL STORE? IS THAT A GREY AREA?"
JAKE-" NO, I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE HISTORY. I TALKED TO A FEW PEOPLE EARLIER. ORIGINALLY WHEN THE ZO WAS WRITTEN, THE R/R ZONE ALLOWED FOR SOME COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT. AS THE TOWNSHIP PROGRESSED OVER THE YEARS, WE HAD A LOT OF CONFLICT IN THE R/R ZONE. SO IN 1997 WHEN WE REDID THE ZO , WE CREATED THE R/C ZONE
AT SILVER LAKE. THAT REMOVED THE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENTS FROM THE R/R ZONE, MAKING IT STRICTLY RESIDENTIAL. THAT ZONE IS CURRENTLY AT SILVER LAKE ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF SILVER LAKE ROAD.
AND THEN ALONG HAZEL ROAD ON THE NORTH SIDE AND THEN ALONG
34TH AVE ALONG THE WEST SIDE OF THE ROAD . THAT'S THE R/C ZONE.
AND THAT 'S WHERE COMMERCIAL DEVELOPMENT IS ALLOWED IN THE RESORT AREA."
DAVID-" IS THE STORE COMMERCIAL OR NOT?"
JAKE-" THIS STORE?"
DAVID-" THIS STORE."
JAKE-" THIS STORE WOULD BE CLASSIFIED AS COMMERCIAL."
DAVID-" SO PART OF THE PUD WOULD BE , PROBABLY A BAD WORD, BUT, TO CIRCUMVENT THE ZONING . IN OTHER WORDS, THE ZONING WOULDN'T ALLOW FOR SOMEONE TO COME AND BUILD A STORE ON A R/R ZONING
PROPERTY."
JAKE-" THAT'S RIGHT, BUT PUD ALLOWS SOME LATITUDE IN MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT. IT'S UP TO THE PC TO MAKE THE DETERMINATION . WHETHER OR NOT THOSE MIXES WORK TOGETHER OR NOT. THAT'S ONE OF THE BENEFITS OF THE PUD. IT GIVES THE PC LATITUDE TO LOOK AT THINGS THAT MAY BE BENEFICIAL , BUT ARE NOT ALLOWED BY ZONING.
OR THE OTHER SIDE WOULD BE THAT IT'S NOT ALLOWED BY ZONING AND
IT'S NOT GOING TO BE BENEFICIAL. SO THEY DON'T HAVE TO ALLOW IT.
DAVID-" SO IN ORDER FOR THIS TO BECOME A PUD, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE BENEFICIAL TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD TO ALLOW THIS DIFFERENT USE, THAT WOULDN'T ORDINARILY BE PERMITTED."
JAKE-" YES."
DAVID-" NOT JUST BENEFICIAL TO THE DEVELOPERS, BUT TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD?"
JAKE-" RIGHT, BECAUSE IN THE PUD THE PROCESS AND HOW THAT PUD EFFECTS THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE SURROUNDING AREA IS WHAT THE PC IS LOOKING AT. ONE OF THE THINGS."
HELEN-"I MIGHT SAY TO YOU SIR, THAT IN THE MASTER PLAN; GUIDELINES AND POLICIES APPLICABLE TO FUTURE DEVELOPMENT ONE OF THEM IS TO REGULATE KEYHOLE DEVELOPMENT, TO PREVENT OVERCROWDING OF REMAINING UNDEVELOPED SHORELINE OPEN SPACE, AND TO RECOGNIZE
THE INTEREST OF RESIDENTS IN AREAS DEVELOPED FOR SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL USE. SO IT WOULD BE ONE OF THE CONSIDERATIONS OF THE PC IN MAKING ANY REZONING TO CONSIDER THE GUIDELINES IN THE MASTER PLAN AND TO BE CONSISTENT WITH THEM."
DAVID-" THERE IS ANOTHER ISSUE THAT I DON'T WANT TO , I MEAN THAT I'M HAVING TO LEARN THINGS THAT I NEVER WANTED TO LEARN. IS THERE A WAY THAT WE CAN GET A COPY OF THE MASTER PLAN? "
JAKE-"I'VE GOT IT."
DUANE " IF THIS IS TRUE, THEN THE DEVELOPER COULD SAY THAT HE WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN ICE CREAM STORE NEXT TO THE CONVENIENCE STORE, CORRECT?"
HELEN-" DO YOU HAVE CHILDREN? THEY CAN ASK FOR ANYTHING."
BOB COLLINS-" I LIVE AT 4569 RIDGE ROAD, I'D LIKE TO ASK STEVE IF HE PLANS TO CHANGE COMPLETELY THE ACCESS FOR THE CARS? WILL
YOU HAVE TO STOP AT THE GATE AND TELL THEM WHO YOU ARE? THEY WOULDN'T LET JUST EVERYBODY IN.
STEVE-" AND THAT WILL STILL BE THE CASE. A GATE THAT REQUIRES A CODE. THE GATE WILL STILL BE THERE, WHAT WE WILL TRY TO DO IS PERFECT A BETTER REGISTRATION AREA AND HAVE A SAFER TRAFFIC FLOW OFF THE ROAD."
BOB-" WILL THE LITTLE STORE BE OUTSIDE THE GATE OR INSIDE?"
STEVE-" THE STORE IS DEFINITELY OUTSIDE THE GATE. AS IT PRESENTLY IS. THE STORE AND THE OFFICE IS OUTSIDE THE GATE.
BOB-"DO YOU PLAN TO MAINTAIN THE ROADS ALL THROUGH THIS PLACE OR WILL THE COUNTY DO IT?"
STEVE-" THE SUBDIVISION , AS PROPOSED, WE PLAN ON BUILDING TWO COUNTY SPEC ROADS AND VERY PROBABLY WE WILL HAVE THE COUNTY TAKE OVER THE ROADS."
HELEN- "ANY OTHER COMMENT?"
MARILYN MARCINIAK-" 8197 W HARRISON ROAD, BUT WE ALSO OWN 20
ACRES ON LAKE ROAD TO THE SW OF TIMBERLAKE. THE CUL-DE-SAC THAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT, WOULD BE BORDERING OUR PROPERTY. I WOULD PREFER TO HAVE THAT BOUNDARY. FOR THE PAST 28 YEARS, I'VE HAD ACCESS TO ALL OF THAT ACREAGE FOR HORSEBACK RIDING AND MUSHROOMING, AND THERE IS AN AWFUL LOT OF WETLANDS BACK THERE
AND I'M REALLY QUESTIONING LOOKING AT THE PLANS AS TO WHETHER THE DEQ OR SOMEBODY SHOULD NOT BE INVOLVED IN CHECKING THE AREA, BECAUSE IT IS WETLANDS WITH WATER AND WILDLIFE BACK THERE. RATHER THAN SEE THIS GREEN SPACE THAT WE'VE ENJOYED FOR SO LONG GO TO RUINS. I'D LIKE TO SEE SOMEBODY DO A STUDY OF THIS. THE PERKIBILITY OF THE LAND TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SEPTIC SYSTEMS WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE. THE WATER PROBLEMS, ALL THESE PEOPLE COMING INTO THE AREA, HOUSES THAT HAVE BEEN BUILT WHERE THEY HAVE DRILLED 400 FEET DOWN AND NO WATER HAS BEEN FOUND. THE DEQ IS LOOKING AT THIS, I WOULD EXPECT THAT WITH ALL THESE PEOPLE COMING INTO THE AREA, THAT THIS HAS GOT TO BE QUESTIONED. ALL OF THESE THINGS, I WOULD HOPE THAT THE BOARD WOULD TAKE THEM INTO CONSIDERATION."
HELEN-" THANK YOU, ANY OTHER COMMENTS?"
DUANE VERNON-" I THINK THAT YOU AS BOARD, I THINK THAT YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT THE FUTURE OF GOLDEN TOWNSHIP. I THINK YOU HAVE TO LOOK AS TO WHAT WE WILL BE PERCEIVED AS, WHAT WE ARE GOING TO LOOKED AT, AND HOW THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN IN THE FUTURE. I
KNOW THAT IS YOUR JOB, BUT I'M REALLY SERIOUS ABOUT THIS. I THINK AND I'M CHALLENGING YOU TO BE SURE THAT EVERYTHING THAT HAS BEEN ASKED HERE TONIGHT IS FOLLOWED THROUGH AND CAREFULLY STUDIED, BECAUSE SOMETHING LIKE THIS CAN CHANGE THE FUTURE OF THE TOWNSHIP. AND I WANT YOU TO REALLY TAKE A GOOD LOOK AT IT."
HELEN-"THANK YOU. IF THERE ARE NO MORE COMMENTS."
WALT ASHLEY-" 4467 RIDGE ROAD, I JUST WANTED TO ASK ABOUT THE TWO LOTS ON THE LAKESHORE. IT WAS SAID THAT THE CAMPGROUNDS WOULD STILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE BEACH. BUT THAT THESE LOTS ACTUALLY DO CONTINUE FROM THE BEACH TO THE ROAD.
STEVE- " FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE THEY CONTINUE TO THE WATERS EDGE. SO THEY COULD GO DOWN ON THEIR OWN BEACH BUT THEY CAN'T
PRECLUDE THE PREVIOUS USE FOREVER OF THE LOTS."
WALT-" SO THEY COULD BE SOLD AS LAKE FRONT LOTS."
STEVE-" NOT AND PRECLUDE THAT USE."
HELEN-" YES, SIR."
DAVID-" THAT'S DIFFERENT THAN ON THE PLAN THAT WE HAVE. IT SHOWS THE WEST BORDER OF THE LOTS BEING AT THE RIDGE, NOT AT THE WATERS EDGE. DOES THAT CHANGE NOW?"
STEVE-" THAT'S NOT CORRECT. IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE WATERS EDGE AND THAT'S WHAT THE AVIATION SHOWS THE EASEMENT THAT THE CAMPGROUND WOULD ALWAYS RETAIN. I THINK THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE LOOKING AT."
DAVID-" WELL, MAYBE YOU COULD HELP ME. JAKE WHEN WE WENT OVER THIS AT YOUR PLACE I THOUGHT THAT YOU TOLD ME THAT THOSE LOTS DIDN'T GO TO THE WATERS EDGE. I THOUGHT I SAW A DRAWING THAT INDICATED THAT. THERE'S A LINE SHOWING ON THIS ONE."
STEVE-"RIGHT AND THAT SHOWS THE BEGINNING OF THE EASEMENT FOR THE CAMPGROUND BECAUSE THEY ARE OBVIOUSLY GOING TO BE USING
THE SAME BEACH THAT THEY HAVE ALWAYS USED. FROM A LEGAL PERSPECTIVE THEY OWN THE WATERS EDGE, SO THEY CAN GO DOWN THERE AS WELL. BUT THEY HAVE GIVEN UP, WELL I DON'T WANT TO SAY
GIVEN UP, BUT THEY KNOW THAT THE CAMPGROUND IS AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN USING IT."
DAVID-"WELL, I JUST SAY THAT YOU ARE ASKING TO GRANDFATHER IT, BUT YOU ARE SUBSTANTIALLY, I THINK CHANGING IT. IT'S A REAL ISSUE AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT CAN BE GRANDFATHERED IN. I WOULD ASK THAT THE PC CONSIDER THAT AS A SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCE."
HELEN- "THAT'S A GOOD POINT TO BE ADDRESSED. STEVE I WOULD ASK YOU FOR THE SAKE OF THOSE WHO CAME TONIGHT AND I THANK YOU
ALL FOR COMING. AN INTERESTED COMMUNITY IS A HEALTHY COMMUNITY. YOU HAVE SAID IN ANSWER TO A QUESTION THAT THE
RESIDENTIAL HOME SITES WOULD BE PURCHASED. AND PEOPLE WOULD BUILD HOUSES ON THEM AND IF THEY WANTED TO THEY COULD RENT THEM OUT. BUT THEY WOULD BE BUYING THE LOT AND THE HOUSE."
STEVE-"THEY WOULD BE BUYING THE LOT. IF IT HAPPENED TO BE ONE THAT A HOUSE WAS BUILT ON, THEN THEY WOULD BE BUYING A HOUSE AND A LOT. I DO NOT PROPOSE THAT EVERY LOT WOULD HAVE A HOUSE.
FROM MY EXPERIENCE, THEY WILL NOT. MOST OF THE SUBDIVISIONS THAT I'VE WORKED IN, WE'VE HAD PEOPLE BUYING A LOT AND MAYBE ANOTHER LOT BECAUSE THEY WANT TO HAVE A LITTLE MORE ELBOW ROOM. BUT THEY ONLY BUILD ONE HOUSE. SO YOU DON'T END UP WITH A COMPLETE DENSITY, BUT IT IS POSSIBLE."
HELEN-" FOR CLARIFICATION, THAT IS TRUE OF ALL THE LOTS EXCEPT LOTS 1-18, IS THAT CORRECT?"
STEVE-" 1-18 , AGAIN WE'D HAVE TO COME BACK, BECAUSE THAT IS THE NEXT PHASE. BUT 1- 18 WE WOULD BUILD LOG CABIN HOMES IN THERE,
NOT REAL BIG ONES. AND THOSE ARE SOME OF THE SMALLER LOTS. BUT
THEY ARE ALSO THE LOTS THAT ARE CONTIGUOUS TO THE CAMPGROUND.
AND THE LOGIC BEHIND THAT WOULD BE VERY LOGICALLY RENT THOSE CABINS OUT UNTIL THEY WERE SOLD AS RESIDENCES,"
HELEN-" YOU EXPECT TO ULTIMATELY SELL THEM?"
STEVE-" YES. THEY ARE STILL IN THE SUB-DIVISION AND I'M IN THE REAL ESTATE BUSINESS. I'M IN THE CAMPGROUND BUSINESS BECAUSE I'VE GOT TO BE. WE ARE HERE TO SELL."
HELEN-"THE ENTIRE 230 CAMPGROUND LOTS, WOULD BE SERVED BY TWO DUMP STATIONS, ONE THAT EXISTS AND ONE THAT IS CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION, IS THAT CORRECT?"
STEVE-"THAT'S CORRECT. AND AGAIN THAT'S ALL DEQ STATE STUFF. I DON'T CONTROL WHO REGULATES THAT."
HELEN-" IF THERE ARE NO FURTHER COMMENTS, THEN I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING."
STEVE THOMPSON-"4210 N RIDGE. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE REQUIREMENTS ARE ON THE BUILDER, BUT I WOULD LIKE TO SEE PAVEMENT IN THE PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT. INSTEAD OF GRAVEL, FOR DUST CONTROL. I THINK IT'S PRETTY IMPORTANT FOR NOISE TOO. AS FAR AS DEVELOPMENT IN THE ARE, FROM A PERSONAL STANDPOINT, IT'S UNNECESSARY, FOR ONE REASON ALONE, WE HAVE TONS OF LOTS FOR SALE IN THE TOWNSHIP AND THERE IS NOBODY BUYING THEM. THERE'S THE ONE THAT'S UP ON THE OLD FRUIT FARM, ORCHARD VIEW. YOU COULD BUY A LOT IN THERE WITH LAKE ACCESS. YOU CAN BUY A LOT IN LAKE MICHIGAN SHORES AND HAVE LAKE ACCESS. I THINK, AND THEY CAN TELL YOU, THAT THEY WILL RESTRICT ACCESS TO THE FOR THE CAMPGROUND,
BUT I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY ONE OF THE STRONGEST SELLING FEATURES OF ANY RESIDENTIAL LOT. YOU CAN SAY YOU ARE GOING TO TRY AND STOP THEM, BUT I DON'T SEE HOW IT'S POSSIBLE. I DON'T SEE
WHAT THE SELLING FEATURE 1500 FEET ON THE OTHER SIDE OF RIDGE RD IS. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I'M OPPOSED TO THE DEVELOPMENT, I'M JUST SAYING WE DON'T NEED MORE VACANT LOTS WITH FOR SALE SIGNS ON THEM FOR THE NEXT 20-30 YEARS."
HELEN- "THANK YOU. WE ARE AT THE POST SCRIPT NOW. AND IF THERE ARE NO OTHER THOUGHTS, THEN I THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS.
I WILL CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND OPEN THE MATTER FOR DISCUSSION AMONG THE PC."
JAKE-" THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF TALK ABOUT LAND NEEDED FOR SALE OR NOT OR NOT BEING NEEDED. LAST YEAR IN THIS TOWNSHIP, WE HAD 33 LAND DIVISION APPLICATIONS. WHICH INCREASED THE NUMBER OF PARCELS IN THIS TOWNSHIP BY APPROXIMATELY 125 UNITS. WE ADDED 125
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
HELEN-" THANK YOU. DO THE MEMBERS OF THE PC HAVE COMMENTS OR LIKE TO DISCUSS THIS MATTER?"
STEVE MARCINIAK-" I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT NEED TO BE ANSWERED OR AT LEAST BE LOOKED AT. I THINK THAT THIS SHOULD BE TABLED."
HELEN- "WE DON'T NEED TO GO TO A VOTE TONIGHT, BUT IT WOULD BE WELL TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSION. IF ANY OF THE PEOPLE HERE AT THE TABLE HAS SOME QUESTIONS OR WOULD LIKE TO BRING UP POINTS."
ANITA-" WOULD THEY LIKE COPIES OF THE LETTERS? WOULD THE BOARD
MEMBERS LIKE COPIES OF THE LETTERS SO THAT THEY KNOW WHAT ISSUES NEED BE ADDRESSED?"
HELEN-" THAT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA."
CARL-" HELEN, I WOULD SAY AT THIS POINT, WE'VE GOT AN OVER ABUNDANT TABLE THAT WE HAVE TO SORT THROUGH, WE'VE GOT TO COME UP WITH AN ITEMIZATION OF QUESTIONS, THAT WE NEED TO RESPOND TO, WE'VE GOT QUESTIONS THAT STEVE HAS PROPOSED, PLUS WE'VE GOT A LOT OF QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE TO ADDRESS. WE HAVE REALLY THREE AREAS THAT WE HAVE TO MEET AS A PLANNING COMMISSION. WE HAVE TO HASH THROUGH THIS , IF YOU WANT TO GIVE EVERYONE A COPY OF THE LETTER, THAT'S FINE, BUT WE STILL HAVE TO COME TOGETHER. SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS THAT WERE RAISED, LIKE THE PRICE OF THE LOT , DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH US. THERE ARE OTHER ISSUES IN THERE, THAT I THINK ONE OTHER THING THAT WE WENT THROUGH BEFORE IS THAT WE CAN REQUIRE A SECURITY BOND. WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND GET OUR LITTLE BOOK OUT AND SIT DOWN AND FIND OUT WHAT WE HAVE TO ASK. WE HAVE A HELL OF A JOB AHEAD OF US."
HELEN-" WE CAN TABLE THE MATTER FOR NOW AND CALL A WORKING SESSION."
CARL- "WE ARE OBLIGATED TO GIVE STEVE AND THESE FOLKS AN ANSWER WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF OTHER PUD'S THAT WE GOT IN TOO DEEP BEFORE WE ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS. SO WE NEED TO DO OUR HOMEWORK."
HELEN-" ALL RIGHT I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION BY CARL TO TABLE THIS MATTER UNTIL FURTHER DISCUSSION AT A WORK SESSION. PETE SUPPORTED THE MOTION. WE'LL SET A DATE. FOR THE WORKSHOP.

CARL- "WE ARE OBLIGATED TO GIVE STEVE AND THESE FOLKS AN ANSWER WE'VE GOT A COUPLE OF OTHER PUD'S THAT WE GOT IN TOO DEEP BEFORE WE ASKED A LOT OF QUESTIONS. SO WE NEED TO DO OUR HOMEWORK."
HELEN-" ALL RIGHT I'LL ENTERTAIN A MOTION BY CARL TO TABLE THIS MATTER UNTIL FURTHER DISCUSSION AT A WORK SESSION. PETE SUPPORTED THE MOTION. WE'LL SET A DATE. FOR THE WORKSHOP.